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January 6, 2005 at 12:00 AM
That was the most... disturbing fic I\'ve read from you... the writing was... up to your standards...but the story was... i think i agree with your beta that it\'s more like rape.
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January 6, 2005 at 12:00 AM
....Just...wow.
This was honestly hard for me to read. As kinky and screwed up in the head, I found myself several times almost stopping and not finishing. Only you can do that, y\'know that? And the big ol\' last line, that just made me effin -SOB.- I got some hints that this occured, and the fact that the responses weren\'t that of approval, but...The fact that they\'d done it multiple times just really got me. Wow, Cupnjava, just..wow. I\'m at a loss of words. Even -MY- sadistic ass almost couldn\'t handle that. And that\'s saying something. Nonetheless, you\'ve proven yourself to be my favorite author as well as best fanfiction author/author in general I\'ve seen.
Utterly shocked and strangely saited,
--Clojaku
This was honestly hard for me to read. As kinky and screwed up in the head, I found myself several times almost stopping and not finishing. Only you can do that, y\'know that? And the big ol\' last line, that just made me effin -SOB.- I got some hints that this occured, and the fact that the responses weren\'t that of approval, but...The fact that they\'d done it multiple times just really got me. Wow, Cupnjava, just..wow. I\'m at a loss of words. Even -MY- sadistic ass almost couldn\'t handle that. And that\'s saying something. Nonetheless, you\'ve proven yourself to be my favorite author as well as best fanfiction author/author in general I\'ve seen.
Utterly shocked and strangely saited,
--Clojaku
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January 6, 2005 at 12:00 AM
Hey CJ, I see it did get posted. :) And you are right it is thought provoking though extreamly disturbing. And *shuddering* even more creepy re-reading it, yet again. The situation in the story is neither happy nor does it end with any closure, yet the subject of how a world is viewed was well done. I will emphasize that regardless of perception however, the situation is out and out rape and is not ok. No means no.
I will also say that the best writers are not afraid to take even the darkest of subjects and explore them. Not all stories are \'happily ever after,\' so I will vouch for your reputaion as being safe (in my opinion anyway *LOL*) because you are, if nothing else, one of the most excellent writers I have had the pleasure of knowing. I hope to see more of your stories posted in the near future (hehehe hinthinthint)
I will also say that the best writers are not afraid to take even the darkest of subjects and explore them. Not all stories are \'happily ever after,\' so I will vouch for your reputaion as being safe (in my opinion anyway *LOL*) because you are, if nothing else, one of the most excellent writers I have had the pleasure of knowing. I hope to see more of your stories posted in the near future (hehehe hinthinthint)
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January 6, 2005 at 12:00 AM
Oooooooh! That was really good! I can\'t believe Sanzo and Gojyo keep doing that to Hakkai, but the perspective makes sense! Luvd it! The only thing that doesn\'t sit right with me was the first review you got that said Hakkai DESERVED TO BE RAPED!?? That\'s insanity, and I think what bugs me is that it was said so non-chalantly, and clearly not the intent of your fic. Just had to vent that one, and point out how amazingly wrong that statement is, no offense to the reviewer. NE way luvd the fic, you R an amazing writer cup\'n!
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January 5, 2005 at 12:00 AM
Personally, I think he\'s asking for it. Think about it, he knows they come when he\'s alone so why isn\'t he with goku?? He knows its not goku, yet he leaves himself alone. Subconsciously, he knows if he\'s alone reading, they will come, they can\'t come if he\'s in the room with the monkey. Another thing is he didn\'t kill them with his chi and he still called them friends. I like it and I think its a great work of art because there\'s so many hidden things that come into play. Sanzo is stubborn, in his mind, he\'s helping a friend, yet there\'s a beast deep inside sanzo that enjoys this kind of thing which you really portrayed well Gojyo is the one who brings a bit of reality to the entire story...his flip flopped thoughts, keeps a slight realism to the situation that makes it hint on rape.
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January 5, 2005 at 12:00 AM
I have always considered good writing to be: stories that get you involved in some way and make you think. Good writing is not about happy endings.
At first, I kept wondering when Hakkai would suddenly forget his remorse and \"join the party\", because that is typically how non-con-ish type stories tend to go. But by not doing that, it by far a much stronger story that says something about the characters rather than simply being a PWP fic (not that there\'s anything wrong with that ;) ).
As for the con vs. non-con debate, perhaps Hakkai resisted \"enough\" for it to go beyond letting them take advantage of his masochism. But I guess \"enough\" is subjective. Hakkai could have resisted more, fought back more, but does Hakkai almost signal his consent by completely ignoring it afterwards, by not voicing his dissent? In some ways Hakkai wants them to hurt him and he let\'s it continue.
Sanzo seems so caught up in his own enjoyment of the act that he cannot fathom how someone else might feel differently about it. Gojyo is definitely on the fence as to whether they are hurting or helping Hakkai. And NiisBunnyGirl is right when she said Goyjo\'s indecision makes it feel real.
Excellent writing and subtleties.
At first, I kept wondering when Hakkai would suddenly forget his remorse and \"join the party\", because that is typically how non-con-ish type stories tend to go. But by not doing that, it by far a much stronger story that says something about the characters rather than simply being a PWP fic (not that there\'s anything wrong with that ;) ).
As for the con vs. non-con debate, perhaps Hakkai resisted \"enough\" for it to go beyond letting them take advantage of his masochism. But I guess \"enough\" is subjective. Hakkai could have resisted more, fought back more, but does Hakkai almost signal his consent by completely ignoring it afterwards, by not voicing his dissent? In some ways Hakkai wants them to hurt him and he let\'s it continue.
Sanzo seems so caught up in his own enjoyment of the act that he cannot fathom how someone else might feel differently about it. Gojyo is definitely on the fence as to whether they are hurting or helping Hakkai. And NiisBunnyGirl is right when she said Goyjo\'s indecision makes it feel real.
Excellent writing and subtleties.
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January 5, 2005 at 12:00 AM
She\'s back, but she hasn\'t registered on AFF yet!
Well, I do have to say that was fucked up on many levels. I did feel I could understand what you were trying to communicate, though & don\'t feel like it was innapropriate to post, since you made an effort to disclaim & explain .
I caught onto the fact that they would return, but totally missed that it had happended before!
Yes, this was disturbing. No, I didn\'t find this titillating. I do not regret reading this, as it was thought provoking.
At first I suppose i also expected it to go down that typical yaoi non-con path - starting out as rape, but ending up with all parties happy & satisfied. Was never actually crazy about that whole thing. Ever since I read cheesy harlequin romances in high school, I never liked that whole non-con being ok just because the uke (or woman in the case of the romance novels) got into it in the end. While that plot device was always bothersome to me, well, you pretty much have to get used to it if you\'re going to read yaoi, just as you have to get used to attempted rape (but rarely successful rape) being used as a plot device in shoujo manga.
Anyway, though more chilling, it is sometimes better to read a story where there is not a happy ending, where sex, non-con or not, doesn\'t tie up all the loose ends. In the \"real world\" (or what we perceive as the real world?) a lot of these tales we read would not be so happy. I don\'t think most people end up falling in love with their rapist, even if you take into account stockholm syndrome, just as i don\'t believe that most cute shoujo girls would really be saved at the last minute from rape by their brooding bishounen classmate, nor do I think there\'s many happy little shota boys in the real world all emotionally well-adjusted after their teacher/father/older brother violates them at the age of ten.
So, I guess there\'s some part of me that can appreciate occasionally reading a story where the actions are actually damaging, instead of \"they all lived happily ever after\", regardless of the good intentions that the aggressors rationalize or perceive.
You never fail to be interesting, cupnjava.
Well, I do have to say that was fucked up on many levels. I did feel I could understand what you were trying to communicate, though & don\'t feel like it was innapropriate to post, since you made an effort to disclaim & explain .
I caught onto the fact that they would return, but totally missed that it had happended before!
Yes, this was disturbing. No, I didn\'t find this titillating. I do not regret reading this, as it was thought provoking.
At first I suppose i also expected it to go down that typical yaoi non-con path - starting out as rape, but ending up with all parties happy & satisfied. Was never actually crazy about that whole thing. Ever since I read cheesy harlequin romances in high school, I never liked that whole non-con being ok just because the uke (or woman in the case of the romance novels) got into it in the end. While that plot device was always bothersome to me, well, you pretty much have to get used to it if you\'re going to read yaoi, just as you have to get used to attempted rape (but rarely successful rape) being used as a plot device in shoujo manga.
Anyway, though more chilling, it is sometimes better to read a story where there is not a happy ending, where sex, non-con or not, doesn\'t tie up all the loose ends. In the \"real world\" (or what we perceive as the real world?) a lot of these tales we read would not be so happy. I don\'t think most people end up falling in love with their rapist, even if you take into account stockholm syndrome, just as i don\'t believe that most cute shoujo girls would really be saved at the last minute from rape by their brooding bishounen classmate, nor do I think there\'s many happy little shota boys in the real world all emotionally well-adjusted after their teacher/father/older brother violates them at the age of ten.
So, I guess there\'s some part of me that can appreciate occasionally reading a story where the actions are actually damaging, instead of \"they all lived happily ever after\", regardless of the good intentions that the aggressors rationalize or perceive.
You never fail to be interesting, cupnjava.